The impact of building a creative community - Simon Wright and Richard Wiggins (All Flows)

"It wasn't until I returned that I began to understand the city a little bit more and see it in a slightly different way." - Simon Wright 

This episode features Simon Wright and Richard Wiggins, the founders of All Flows, a creative festival in Milton Keynes. They discuss their journey from hosting Milton Keynes Geek Night to launching All Flows festival, their creative agency Ville, and their dedication to championing Milton Keynes' unique design heritage. 

Despite being a relatively young city, Milton Keynes has a rich history of using arts to build community, with radical approaches to urban design that attracted influential architects and designers. Simon and Richard share their passion for creating intimate, inspirational events that connect international creatives with local talent, highlighting their commitment to quality programming and community building over commercial success.

Takeaways

• Milton Keynes, despite being only 56 years old, has a rich design heritage that included contributions from figures like Buckminster Fuller.
• All Flows began as a passion project between two friends who wanted to create the kind of creative event they'd want to attend.
• The founders intentionally keep All Flows intimate to foster meaningful connections between speakers and attendees.
• Both Simon and Richard are driven more by passion than commercial interests, prioritizing quality and inspiration over profit.
• Their curation process involves researching speakers extensively and creating a balanced program that mixes established names with emerging talents.
• Student involvement through scholarships and volunteering is a key part of their mission to inspire the next generation of local creatives.
• The venue challenges in Milton Keynes have shaped the festival's character rather than deterring its growth.
• The festival has gained international recognition, with attendees traveling from as far as Michigan and New Zealand.
• All Flows is now included in Milton Keynes' five-year cultural and tech strategy, signifying its importance to the city.
• The founders see All Flows as continuing Milton Keynes' legacy of using arts and creativity to build community and create a sense of place.

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Transcript

All Flows:  uh, [00:00:00] I think that's sometimes where we struggle, um, and a little bit, But at the same time, in 1, regard is like, it's quite nice. We haven't got somebody saying, you know, you need to this project to pay but we probably should. It'd be good if we had that, you know, we need to get but I think we are very organic and we go after stuff and we are a bit more passion led what we do.

And we certainly wouldn't be going and doing things like all flows you know, it's certainly case. I said a a commercial reason. You know, again, we'd love to start making money of it out down the line and we'll get there at some point.

But, you know, we're coming it because it'd be really cool to do this in our city, welcome to Mindful Creative Podcast, a show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is r Malini and creativity changed my life, but it also nearly killed me in this season. Inspired by my book of the same title, I'm talking to some of [00:01:00] the most celebrated figures in a creative industry.

Radim: In our candid conversations, my guests share their experiences and how they overcame their challenges and struggles. How they'll learn to grow as creatives. A creative career in the 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career.

So thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life. You ready?

Today I'm speaking to two creative powerhouses. They share passion for art, design technology, socially engaged practice, and creative placemaking. They run a multidisciplinary creative agency. They run a multidisciplinary creative agency called Ville, as well as all flows and internationally creative, as well as all flows and international creative design and digital conference that is held annually in Milton Keynes.

In this [00:02:00] conversation, we talk about a drive to create intimate inspirational events with commitments to quality programming and community building. We talk about Milton Keynes highlighting its rich history, and today we talk about Milton Keynes highlighting its rich history of views in arts to build community and its radical approach to urban design attracted influential architects and designers.

Is my pleasure to introduce Richard Wiggins and Simon Wright.  

Richard Simon, how are you doing? 

All Flows: Very well. How are you doing?  uh, good to chat again, adeem? 

Radim: Yes. It's good to have you on the show. I mean, you guys are doing something remarkable 

away from London, away from everybody else in your own sort of sphere and whenever I see your email signature land in my inbox, I was like, I wanna speak to these guys 'cause they're as busy as I am.

And it's nice to see people doing different things. But for those who have made heard of all flows, your festival or your creative agency, how would you introduce yourself? 

All Flows: My name's Simon Wright. My name is Richard [00:03:00] Wiggins. bit of background I guess would be helpful to kind of contextualize everything. So my, background's in contemporary art, and I worked at, uh, Nelson Kings Gallery, uh, for about 15 years as Curator of public Programs.

And that's where I first met Richard when I began hosting, uh, a long standing event that he'd been running in Milton Keynes called MK Geek Night. Uh, and that had been going for a. about 12 years now. Yeah, something like that. 12 and a a half years. Um, and basically I began hosting the event. Uh, they'd lost their venue, they needed a new venue, and, um, I offered our space up. Um, and  um, you know, event had been for creative industries for the kind of tech community in Milton Keynes, but I guess kind of surrounding area it was pulling in people from inger, Oxford, London, all over the place. Um, and. Rich and i, over that kind of period about five years, I guess we, um, became friends, um, and we had lots of kind of shared areas of kind of [00:04:00] interest. And then I decided to kind of leave my job at the gallery and, go freelance. Uh, and Rich and I and another colleague of ours called Daniel Shadi, who's a graphic designer, um, we were really interested in, um, developing a new kind of publication for Milton Keynes, um, because we felt that there wasn't really anything talking about.

Milton Keens is a place, and just to kind of say both of us kind of grew up here in Milton Keynes, um, and we wanted to kind of tell a bit of a different kind of story about city,  um, that wasn't perhaps being told by other sort of local media that were, you know, pretty, pretty basic to be honest. Um, so we, kind of came together as a group. Uh, and we came up 

with the name Ville, um, which is, uh, both the name of the publication, but also the name of our kind of creative agency. 

So ville is an interesting one. Um, so it's actually the plan, uh, that was designed prior to milton Keynes being designed. So perhaps we can go in a little bit further back towards kind of, um, the [00:05:00] Newtown story and the story of Mil Keynes. Perhaps a little bit later. But Ville was a kind of plan put together by an architect, an urban designer called fred Pooley. Uh, and this was like in the early sixties, um, around sort of 61, 62. And he was charged with, um, the idea of designing a new town city for North Buckingham ship. 

And that plan got dubbed ville. Um, and actually it sort of preceded the new plan that came along for the design of Milton Keynes, which eventually Pegville was kind of superseded. 

Um, but it was always something that kind of stuck in my head, this kind of place that, um, was planned for but never actually kind of came into fruition. And then Milton Keynes kind of took over basically. Um, and I. Yeah, it was just a kind of acute name to talk about kind of place, about a location and, and, I guess kind of like alternative stories and possible kind of futures. Um, so we were going through this kind of whole process of coming with, um, this new publication, um, over a course of about, I [00:06:00] guess a kind of, you know, 6, 7, 8 months.

a number of other opportunities started to come our way. Um, primarily working, um, with another colleague of ours, will Cousins who has a background in architecture and urban design. He was actually part of milk King's Development corporation in the kind early seventies as well. Uh, and had been working in the city for a long time. He was chair of Milton Kes Gallery where I used to work. Um, and he was in very close dialogue with new developers were kind of coming into Milton Kes and proposing to develop new sort of multi-use sort of schemes. And we were, um, basically invited by a developer called Associates to, um, develop a kind of meanwhile activation program of a building that they'd just kind of purchased. I. Uh, and had plans to kind of redevelop so we were working quite closely with them over a kind of period of time, uh, hosting kind of exhibitions, running events, doing conferences, uh, in this new building that eventually was gonna be sort of redeveloped and turned [00:07:00] into, you know, housing, but also kind of retail offices, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, and we also ended up, because of Richard's kind of background in, design and, web, we ended up doing a lot of work with them  um, uh, on their sort of branding and website for that particular kind of scheme. pub, the original kind of publication idea actually had to take a little bit of kind of backseat and we ended up doing a lot more kind of commissioned work and projects.

And then that also led to, uh, doing a lot of work with Milton Keens Council. Uh, particularly with the kind of culture and heritage team, um, mainly with the Heritage team, looking back at the kind of Newtown story of the city and being, you know, growing up here, um, we're sort of fascinated by the story of the city and how it came about. It's kind of utopian kind of ideals, the way it's sort of used artists to develop new communities. Um, all of those sort of fascinating radical approaches that kind of is kind of under the surface a little bit, uh, in milking. So we've done a lot of work with the kind of Heritage Officer Shane Downer, um, and done [00:08:00] various different kind of projects over the last kind of few years, um, 

with. Ville, the magazine idea had always been kind of in  kind of you know, back of our minds. Yeah. Whilst we were doing all of this other work that was paying the bills. Um, so we launched a kind of biweekly newsletter, um, um, and that was our kind of starting point where we were trying to kind of talk about the things that were happening in the city, but perhaps weren't being promoted very much, but also other things that were operating around the area and also things that kind of caught our mind.

International elements as well. I think stuff that, I guess it's our curated content, the stuff that we have a kind of like, you know, you know, I guess an eye for or just enjoy looking at or reading you know, and then so sometimes we like to bring a bit element of that to it as well. Yeah.  um, so we've just gone past our hundreds.

Addition of that, but at the same time, we've been sort of developing the website, which is Ville City, uh, for sort of longer form kind of content. So more kind of commissioned articles, whether it might be a review of an [00:09:00] exhibition, uh, a mK gallery for example. Or it might be a piece by a local, um, graphic designer who's been looking at the kind of visual language, um, of Milton keynes, you know, the kind of graphic design histories and the artworks, et cetera, and how that sort of influenced his practice, um, to interviews with, um, photographers like Simon Phipps, who also grew up in milton King's, an amazing kind of photographer of like brutalist architecture.

Um, so we've been sort of steadily building up that, aspect of um, uh, I guess our kind of creative agency as well, the sort and the publication. At the same time, we've been doing quite a lot of work with Milk Kings Council around the kind of tech ecosystem in the city. And this is a really big kind of narrative that's been coming through over the kind of last three or four years. and with another colleague, Oliver Waters, we launched a called, um, proto Space, which aimed to bring together, um, the tech community in Milton keynes and really to start to kind of amplify, I guess the [00:10:00] city as a place for innovation, new technology for 

startups, for scale ups, et cetera. 

Um, so alongside all of that, yeah, we will get to all flows, we will get to all flows alongside all of that. Um. I think we probably talked about a conference at some point. Yeah. During a time when Richard was kind of hosting, um, geek Night at the gallery. 

We probably had some sort of conference yeah. conversation about, yeah, we talked about his ideas and I'd actually, my friend and, uh, a colleague who I run Geek Night with his, a chap called David Huey's, one of my good old friends.

So, and we actually did do like an all day conference for, um, uh, Milton King's Geek Night back in, I think it's 2014. So that was our, you know, let's try and, you know, we'd been doing Geek Night for a couple of years, then it's like an evening, and evening or community, 

I guess community event. You know, it was generally free back in the day. And we used to have, you know, quite a lot of people, uh, attend to that. And yeah, we, decided to try and do a conference. It was incredibly stressful. We made no money out of it. I spent so much time. Um, I, you know, I created, again, my background [00:11:00] is, digital design branding a little bit, sort of predominantly web design back in the day. Um, you know, I kind of created all the assets for it. But one of those things you pour a lot of time into, um, incredibly stressful. I enjoyed it, but at the same time you're like, I'm never gonna do that again.  Uh, and we never did. Technically we did talk about it again as part of Geek Night, and then when we were working on other and Simon and I come together, I think really we had too much coffee one day. Um, and we were talking about, I think some of the, um, speakers we'd got lined up over, gee. And we often plan ahead for that, even though it's a a smaller event. It's typically been run quarterly. 

We are maybe pushing that back possibly this year for the first time to three times in year just to sort of take a bit of pressure off. But we're like, oh, we've got some really good speakers come up. Some of the people I think you've probably had on your podcast or, certainly no, in the past, um, had spoken and then we were like, oh. Maybe could do a bigger event, you know, and we like, we'd love to. So it's not Geek Night, it's not part of our existing kind of community. Um, but do something inspired by other bigger events. 

We've both been to, you know, you know, you know, not actually been to Off, but like, you know, I you know, I was gonna obviously very aware of it and what Hector's doing there. And my friends, uh, [00:12:00] mark Teer runs an event in Germany called Teran, which been running for a really long time. And I know Mark for a really long time. And you know, we chat quite a lot, gone to that a number of times and,  um, other design conferences and know around the UK and, you know, yeah, just wanted to do something, you know, maybe we could do something here and Yeah. Too much coffee. And we got a little bit carried away about what that could be. Um, and we birthed all flows 

Radim: I mean, that's a fascinating story. Just before I get to my first question, just for the editing purposes, if you just. Say, my name is Richard and my name is, if I, I'll, I'll, I'll put it at the beginning if you just introduce yourself with your name.

So I'll just edit it to the front. 

All Flows: Okay. 

Okay. My name's 

Simon, 

is that it not 

right? Simon Wright. My name's Simon Wright. Uh, 

Uh, 

my name is Richard Wiggins. 

Radim: Perfect. 

Um, so before we talk about all flows in more depth, I never really knew that much about Milton Keyes. I know things are happening Milton Keyes.

You know, I've got, uh, one of our friends, Kyle Wilkin's done work with the Unity plays with Santander. It's happening. We've got actually a client in, Milton Keens for those sort of governance, uh, funded startups. So the place is there, uh, but. To actually know more about it, I think it needs someone like you to really put it to the forefront.

Because whilst you were explaining your, uh, whilst you were answering your first question, I've looked it up and Milton Kings is only 56 years old. 

All Flows: Mm-hmm. 

Radim: Right. How does the world of creativity and how does it work in a place that's young? know, what sort of effect does it have on creativity and the minds and, people overall?

Because, you know, [00:13:00] when you go to places which are much older, you can say, okay, this is inspired by something older. This is this, this is got heritage, this is got sort of something behind it. Whereas would you describe in your answer was so culturally rich and so enticing, thinking, how does it, you know, add up?

How does it work? 

All Flows: yeah. I, 

I think it's, yeah, is a really fascinating place. it's not perfect by any means. And I think. From a sort of personal experience. You know, growing up here, all I wanted to do was leave. Uh, and I went to kind of . study in London, uh, and study kind of fine art, and then lived in Brighton and then gradually of ended up kind of coming back to Milton Keynes.

But it wasn't until I kind of returned, I think I began to kind understand it a little bit more and to kind of see it in a slightly different way. Um, what is really fascinating the, kind of the history of the city for me is, how the arts was used to kind of create community. Um, so the development corporation as well as being incredibly ambitious in terms of how they were physically constructed in the space, they were [00:14:00] also being really radical in how they were kind of creating communities. So artists were. 

Commissioned to come here, um, to be artists in residence, to work with kind of communities, um, to create that kind of sense of place in something that was kind of entirely new.

And this was coming out of the kind of quite radical 1970s community arts movement. Um, so there's really incredible organizations interaction, uh, were up here. Um, they were doing projects where they were creating their own kind of TV channels. So Milton Keynes had its own TV channel called Channel 40, um, which was actually, interestingly, it was part of an exhibition, that was at Raven Road Gallery in London, um, a couple of years back, uh, all around the kind of community television movement.

Um, and then, you know, they were also commissioning, um, lots lots of kind of public art around the city, you know, and that still carries on today. You know, it's still a place, as you said, You know, it's only 56 years old, so it's still a [00:15:00] place that's constantly developing. And I think there's that kind of sense of, um, possibility is still kind of very within the kind of DNA of the city. And that narrative I think, kind of goes across, you know, all the kind of council, but also I guess some of the,

um, I guess the artistic and the design community, there's still that kind. It's still growing. It's still developing. Um, but it's also, um, the history of it. It's always been there, you know? Um, think we are real, hopefully we're real sort of champions of, this place, you know? And I think we see. The possibilities and having kind of events and doing the kind of projects that we do. Hopefully it starts to kind of shout about that a little bit more, uh, beyond the you know? So we very much see all flows as a kind of national, international type of event, you know, and bringing kind of new designers, artists, whatever, to Milton Keynes to kind of look at it in a slightly different way.

Radim: It is an interesting thing when you say like, all I wanted to do is leave 

All Flows: Yeah, 

Radim: think that's a sort of natural instinct for many people, even for people from London. Actually. It doesn't matter [00:16:00] wherever you were born, like most people were thinking like, yeah, I've had enough. I wanna leave. And then you get a diehards like yourself.

They're like, actually, you know what, I'm gonna come back and actually make a difference in my community. ' cause Richard, you were born in Milton Kings, right? 

All Flows: Yeah, I was, uh, I was born, well, technically we have a hospital then, but we're just on the road and, and my, uh, I have a lot here. My parents actually built in Central Milton Kings very early on the, in the early eighties. So, um, then, you know, we moved, we'd lived on outskirts. Like for a few years, but, you know, very close by, and then literally into Central mount Kings and a, you know, in a Southfield house at a brand new school. Um, ' cause everything was so new, these estates were literally just coming up, you know, and it's, that is only, funnily enough, only just over the road really from where we are now. Um, so yeah, I literally grew up here, went to school here. Um, and then actually I sort of, I actually stayed here. I didn't go, um, I didn't actually end up going to by, partially by choice. I kind of like to just get into a career. I knew I actually interested in design and graphic design and, uh, and actually started as a career as a web designer back when web design was, uh. Very new, I guess, uh, back in the late nineties when, you know, most people have, you know, majority of people didn't [00:17:00] even have an internet connection back then, so, um, and that kind of like, like, you got me even more solidified I was interested in design. Okay. It went into some web design area, but, um, and then few years later, well about, I think about six years later, I actually started, I ventured out and just started on my own, um, doing I guess a freelance, you know, it is a bit of business, but basically just worked myself. Uh, and, and I had basically done that ever since, um, until basically simon and I, uh, uh, met and, well, we started LIO together. Um, and then I think through starting things like 

I would go out to these other events, you know, this is how I sort of, like, I was always, you know. I guess I liked living here, you know, again, quite critical of various but I kinda like a little bit, probably back in now, I was a bit more of my siloed thing and used to go out to to London or to Oxford or know, to,  further afield, you know, to Germany to see go these other events and it's like, there must be people here. You know, it is one of those ones where if you it, hopefully they will come. And we started, when we started Geek Night, that was, you back when Twitter worked, when it was actually a nice place to 

And you know, actually had, you know, meaningful connections and friends online on that and we started a tweet and, you know, I think we were close to [00:18:00] around about a people at our first event and, and not, you know, mostly the city but also from London and a few other places. And was like we to fair, we had a couple of really good speakers. We had John Hicks, um, who's an old friend who was quite well known, uh, for doing a a lot of icon design. Did lots of stuff for, did the, um. Uh, Firefox logo back in the day and did a lot work with spotify and things like that. But, then brendan do, I mean, you, you might know Brendan yourself and, uh, he's a friend and actually at a couple of our, a couple of geek nights and actually had spoken at All flows last year as well. So they were kind like our first speakers at a small event. it was pretty good. You we were, they were friends, they were free, you know, we knew them, um, between David and myself. So, but the reason for doing was like a little bit selfishness, you know, I was tired of like always having to go to Oxford always having to go to London or wherever sort of, to go to events this.

And back in 2012, there wasn't really much going on here around that scene. And it was just like, let's just try it. And, you know, initially it was gonna be a meetup in a pub and then we said, no, actually have a bit more structure to that. Let's put some on really informal though, you know, we'll have some beers, you know, maybe if we get some, might get some in. kind of, and [00:19:00] that went from there really. so. That's how, I guess, is my I guess, first, to me personally, is like my personal dipping, you know, dipping my toe in the to doing a bit more based stuff and really getting actually involved with other people here. And it was through that. Then I ended up, over the years, you know, met become a lot of friends, but also, Simon mentioned, uh, Oliver, who we do his other, uh, element protest space 

And, you know, he started an event a few after, a couple of years after that. And you know, we, when it was, I guess probably partly because he'd start come to Geek night and was at that, you know, things started happening a bit in that kind of, I guess, creative and slightly tech side of it as well. And obviously now was, as any city, there's there's a million meetups and events going on every day of the week, really.  um, but yeah, I'm from here and I'm still, you know, champion on a lot of things, you know, creative and, and outside of that as well. 

Radim: I will ask you in a second about.

The community aspect, and I'll ask you more about how so you built it because yeah, back in the day, Twitter was fantastic when it worked and listen to talk about what it is now. But, um, I wanna talk about actually the city for a bit longer because it's a new [00:20:00] city. Like some cities got obviously their heritage, they've got their sort of signage, you can see stuff.

Whereas for something which is only sort of that many years old, did it feel to you like that when you were sort of coming back from London and seeing, like reflecting on the architecture, reflecting on signage? Because in a way. I would hope that there was not too much of a sort of really old, you know, crappy design to deal with.

Like, you know, you know, sort of, when you say the legacy design is fruitful, I mean it's, it's beneficial to our creative, you know, inspiration where sometimes, for example, where I grew up, rather forget everything I've seen because it was just like sort of eighties design that was just done to beat, you know?

So did you, with your surroundings, how much were you aware of the fact that you were dealing with something where it was just, sort of just finished and you said like your, your parents built in central min and canes and it was, there was no hospital before and I think you got to see a build of a city from a different perspective to many other people in the uk.

So creatively, like, did you have even chance to be aware of the fact that that's something that's happening compared to the other cities? Um, 

All Flows: I don't think it's until I actually kind of came back that I realized its [00:21:00] impact, um, after kind of being away and then when I was at Milk Kings Gallery, we were doing quite a lot of work, um, with some of the original kind of architects and urban designers and, people that had worked for Milton King's kind of development corporation. Um, so I also kind of aware of  this is a really different place to kind of live. Um, I think what's also really beautiful about it is that it's an incredibly green city. Mm. Despite it being built. Ultimately built for the car because it's on a big grid system and it's super convenient. Um, there's actually a really beautiful, um, landscape, uh, that's been of, you know, purposely designed. Um, but yeah, think really understanding its kind of history, uh, when I kind of came back from London and Brighton, um, and understanding how much of a kind of radical proposition it was, um, yeah, made me kind of look at things.

Yeah, differently. Uh, and to hear directly [00:22:00] from those people that have been in its kind of creation was a real privilege as I think, you know, and those kind of stories often, um, you know, that generation are sadly they're dying out and, you know, preserving those of stories.

And there's, there's great kind of archival organizations in city that are kind of preserving those kind of histories and those about the place. I mean, you know, they were working with some of the most kind of interesting architects and, kind of graphic designers, artists of that era. You know, they were in a really amazing position where they were like, here's a piece of land, here's a significant amount of money to create this new place for 250,000 people. and it had like, you know, all of the kind of radical. Thinking that was going on within the kind of late sixties and early seventies, like infused into it, you know? Um, and it had people like buckminster 

Fuller was coming over to give talks to the development corporation. You know, Terrence 

Conran was kind of circling around it. [00:23:00] There was, um, really radical architects from the Architecture Association. Um, AR gram built a playground in keynes. You know, that was one of their only kind of projects, you know, so there was all of these kind of incredible people that are kind of revered today that are actually working on keynes when they were very, very young architects or, sort of designers, you know?

So I think we've got a lot. Uh, to kind of talk about, uh, on a sort of national and level around our kind of design heritage,  you know? And I think really, you know, perhaps for us all is just a continuation of that legacy, you know? Uh, and I'm sure in, you know, 10, 15, 20 years time, there'll be another couple of youngsters doing something interesting in the city. So, So, you know, feel like you have, um, the opportunity to make something happen and people are receptive to it, and you're allowed to take risks. Um, which that doesn't always happen.  You know, 

Radim: The, [00:24:00] the story of the first gig night, as you described it, it reminds me, I've got a friend called Izzy in Ottawa in Canada, and she decided to start Ottawa Design Club.

And she was like, I don't think there's any creatives the city. It's a very government city. Like where's everyone? And as soon as she started putting feelers out. People started showing up and it's, rapidly growing sort of community and so much sort that for her, it's turned out to be something similar to you guys.

Like, she's a community building designer. So what you guys do is like, kind of, you only find your community if you, if you start looking for it. Because it's so easy to be sort of working as a creative seclusive, I'm like, yeah, nothing's going around.

Is there, nothing's really going on. And, you realize actually there's lots of people thinking the same and all it really takes is a tweet in your case and actually ask a few friends to come up and do something about it. So that must have been quite satisfying feeling to actually see that there's people around you sort of thinking the same or similar, uh, and being sort of inclined in a way of appreciating creativity.

Um, so what was the buzz like when the first geek night sort of happened and Yeah. How did you feel like spurred on with, because that was not the one with the [00:25:00] first too much caffeine, was it? 

All Flows: No, no. All flows too much caffeine. No,  uh, I think is probably, uh, down the pub. Um, I suspect from what I remember, I think initial chats, I think it was over a few beers. Uh, so these ideas often born out of a coffee shop or a pub, I think  uh, in my experience. 

But, um, yeah, I mean, it was great when you did it and we, did it and okay. We lucky enough to have John and, uh, Brendan come and at the first one. But yeah, you know, having that many people turn in actually quite an iconic building now. It's the old bus station and, uh, it was a community space for a our community ran space. It was a great event space and we just did it there and, you know, was pretty lo-fi. Um, the audio was crap, you know, they had their own basic, uh, mic there, which I think the first event they kind of, we got away with it. Um, but having you know, again, it was something like close to a hundred, you know, lot of people sat on the floor. wasn't enough tables and chairs, but it was just kind like, it was great, you know, it was just a nice like chill vibe. 

And we always tended to do, back in those days, was kind of like, I think we even started our first event. We had like five talks. We had two slightly longer talks and then we'd always have like three sort of maybe five minute talks. Um, and that worked quite well. And I dunno if we started it. [00:26:00] Back then. But what we still do and we have done for a very long time, we do like what we call One minute Wonders.

So they do like pitch type but we try to say not like, it's not a commercial pitch, you know, it's more like if you are looking for staff or you are looking to start an event, you know, or you know, something more to that Um, and again, always been really good. But yeah, I remember doing it and we like, okay, do this again then, you know, and it like I can't remember exactly, It's such a long time we put it out there and, it was even bus of a second one. Um, and again, a of friends we knew from, uh, came along I'm not from Milton Keens to sort of speak that. I remember having the second one had, uh, a lot of audio problems where it just. So busy the mics weren't great and the receivers, it just like, they just kept cutting out. So you know, we're like going forward in future, we have to figure something out. And randomly some people who were there in the room, we were about to try and find someone to help us. and they contacted us. And what's really, really nice is, I mean, they're technically, they don't even 

Milton Kings. They've been helping us at every single Geek Night since. And that just kinda like it. was, I mean, it's great that they basically give up their time to help us 'cause they're like audio gurus and they knew exactly what they were doing. And literally, so from that [00:27:00] onwards, had really good audio and tech you know, and it was always, we all set the bar quite high with who we brought in to speak, even though it is a real event. We always wanted to do it really well. And actually for certainly, I guess in those kind of, certainly those sort of circles, when was, back in the day, there events, like new adventures, uh, in web design. And if you knew that one, Simon Collison was an, and our friend who used to run that and. W we actually like Geek and I got quite well known, we were up for something like, like Net Mag Community Awards back in the day, and we went to the Net Mag awards and when 

existed and things like that. And, you know, it was a community event, but actually, because I think we always set the bar really high, you know, we wanted to deliver make sure, and, and, and even now we, you people come and speak who I guess, come from some of those circles, oh yeah, we know, I know of you. Or I know my friend's spoken in the or those things like that. And you know, it's, although it not a big event, it's still like, it's still got a good reputation and I think. Uh, again, just that's I guess what we've gone to with, we noticed that it's, it's consistency and persistence. Yeah, persistence and again, trying to, uh, there was never a plan to be running it more, probably even than a two or three years. You know, there wasn't a you know, it was like, to be still running it [00:28:00] now over 12 years later is, bit madness really. So, um, but also proud of and, you know, we've been, you know, brought into things from the city point of view, from the council. I met Prince back a number of years ago at an, you know, the event that the council as I guess, running this and so those opportunities came up. But I think, or was, I dunno if it went but there was something around when Milton Keynes for actual, for city and got city status. There was some sort of, I remember it coming up in with the council. I dunno if it was included, I don't 

But, but you know, is nice to be part of that. And guess There's still a lot of people the city have no idea we exist. Um, which is one of those things, it probably happens in all other cities, certainly in Nelson Kings. You know, there's definitely a lot of people in our creative or tech sectors who don't know the things we do, but that's fine. You know, there's enough people who know. Um, and I guess that goes back to, um, why we started the as well, to try and talk about these sorts of things and try and get more people to know that this, you know, geek was happening or other interesting events were kind of happening. Um, sorry I cut you No, no, no, no, you're right. And I it's always been quite a bit of a struggle, whether it is the of the [00:29:00] city, which we are fans of, a lot of what it does is it's always quite hard to bring some of these things to attention, um, or to cut through is a lot of disconnection with creative in, you know, what's going on 

Milton Kings with music, what's going in Milton Kings, certainly with tech, is why we were involved with the other element that was like what our proposal back to try and bring, uh, a bit more cohesiveness and bring trying to some these people and projects and events to light really. So, um, and all flows is just that on steroids for us you know, like, you it would probably be a lot easier to do this event, not in Milton King's, if we're honest. You know, we have challenges here. 

We struggle good venues here. You know, not saying good, just the right kind of venues there's, we're not old city, which is full of like old interest, loads of old interesting spaces. Because it is this new it doesn't have that. are spaces and you know, they're either brand new and they're not quite right or they're quirky because we have challenges with and we're still working through those now. Um, but yeah, and also like bringing people here, we're not London, we're not Berlin, we're not Vienna, we're not Amsterdam, you know, you know, you know, so, or Manchester, you know, so, is definitely a challenge, you know, um, terms of, you know, perceptions, people's perceptions [00:30:00] of Milton Keynes as and trying to change that little bit, um, not just through all flows, but what we do at Ville you know, and other people here by trying to highlight what they're doing as well.

Radim: I mean, Richard, we have spoken a few times I did ask you, you, know, know, did you ever consider doing it anywhere else? And now I have spoken to you for half an hour and I've got so many reasons now, understanding why you do what you do and where you do it, because it's quite unique sort of up because I think because of the canvas of the backdrop that you got there, the way you started it makes perfect sense because can cave in and say, okay, we know, we can host it in Somerset house someone's given us a space.

That would be easier. However, I think that reward would be totally different. It might seem almost like a cop out, because obviously if you've been building your community in Milton Keynes from grassroots level all the way to where you are now, like it does make sense that even going against some of the limitations and constraints that the city provides you with.

It does make sense to do it that way because I can sense like how much, you know, it means to you guys to actually be there and how much to actually put on the [00:31:00] map because just like you started your first note in geek nights and with sort of just by, with a tweet and getting people in it just grows from there.

I think definitely grows. But since you mentioned that, you mentioned you put on your first old day and you lost money on it. Um, that's, I think that's happened with everyone. I think there's the story you mentioned, Hector, I think of was in the Red for quite a few years and it was not the easiest story and all of the little events I know from people who put on in Aberdeen and elsewhere, it's always a loss making exercise.

However, what you creating for the audience and for the speakers, especially with the smaller events. It's invaluable. It's literally those memories are for the lifetime because it just, it's that small ways of, it's not small way, but it's that sort of the size of the audience and contact with the speakers and having a immediate chat.

Yeah. it's like nothing else because of course you can go to a big festival for 5,000 people. It's great, it's score great buzz, but it's a bit of like a Disneyland, you know, like I think there's reasons why some things are big and shiny and some things that really stand up stay and maybe should stay small.

So how did you feel about sort of having an idea, okay, no, we lost [00:32:00] money, but we're gonna do again and we are gonna grow it and see what happens. 

All Flows: Yeah, I mean, I think for it was a long time ago and we are talking, know, well, I mean, well over a decade ago we did that event and, uh, yeah, was a challenge and that was, you know, probably a bit, you know, there was generally people from the uk um, attending that, but. It, it is a little bit scary. I'm definitely a bit, risk averse for us to, to do this. like, and it actually fair, it's probably not the most sensible idea when events are struggling. They're starting to come back a bit now, but definitely, know, we are coming into our third year, uh, you know, it  um, two years ago, um, well only three years ago, we launched our one and events weren't very worse. So quite scary, you know, in a post covid world, um, where the industry has changed people have the way they buy tickets. I think it's slowly changing, but, um, certainly a couple years ago or two, three years ago, it, it was tough, so probably not the most smartest idea to do and it's just the two of us behind, uh, all flows.

Um. I guess that 99% of the time in reality is like we have you know, a really great volunteer team and people that come in  uh, who really help us you know, and friends, you know, throughout support in different  um, and partners. But it's two of us and we put a lot of [00:33:00] time and passion into it.

And it is a tricky one us 'cause it's a passionate projects at the moment. Um, but at the same time, when you're spending months and months on it, you need to pay the bills as well. So, um, you know, for us, it's going in the right direction as an event. Um, it's still growing, but yeah, I think we, you know, love to, if was a maybe the right venue, scale it a little bit, but we've talked about this and we never wanna be big, you know, we wanted it to.

We like that intimacy of what it and especially our first year, mean, both last two years, we you know, Appreciate not all the speakers can stay around for for whole two, three days. Um, some of them did, you know, when they do, it's great. And it's that ability to just chat, you know, in the breaks or at lunchtime or go through a beer have dinner.

And people were that and we heard some of those from some of the people from outside the city and some people who we know who are I guess, friends in the city who attended they were like, you know, yeah, it's great. We to lunch with kate and you know, she was lovely you know, is nice when those kind of like connections and i. You really get to meet people in the event. I guess that's what I've experienced that some of the events I've been to, especially like Mark's event in Germany, for example, it's okay, seven or 800 people, 

it scales a bit, but you I'm lucky enough to meet a lot of [00:34:00] speakers, I guess through maybe through know but spending time with them and spending time other people, you know, made friends, you know, and there's ones I used to go to, um, uh, well, I only held one in Build in Belfast. I'm still connected with some of these people, know, and who I met over a few days, you know, back then at, uh, an and I think that's nice. And again, maybe at those much bigger and you know, don't me wrong, they're amazing, but You don't get that connection. Um, and the chance to, yeah, have conversations a bit and bump into the same people more than once, you know I think nice. so yeah, we do want to grow it. Um, but not too big, you know. Um, um, but but yeah, it's been good. Um, we have ambitious ideas. For sure about, I guess in, not say in terms of scale, but you know, how we can amplify it all the time. You know, we're always trying to think you know. Within our very budget and, time, what we can do and, you know, how we can make it better and, you know, make it more fun, um, and more inspiring. Really. 

Radim: there is something really exciting about a small I mean, I'll always be them.

I'll always be looking out for them because I even have to say like most of the guests on this podcast. Have been from firsthand encounters at events. You know, like, just even saying hello to someone for five minutes makes a hell of a difference. Just to know who person is and what they do, [00:35:00] and like, just to find out more a person. yeah. It's, makes the difference. like, I remember going to these small events in Canada, in Montreal, run by my friend Coran, it was again, like similar size to yours, yeah, he was punching above his weight massively.

But everyone you've met, because it was a small crowd of around 2, 2 people, you go for, you know. Community dinners or you go like, you and kind of, even though you meet these people for like a day or an afternoon or just a dinner, you stay on friends on Twitter back in the day, you know, and, You had just a different relationship with those people rather than just sort of meeting someone as an going there, whatever, you know, like see here and there. So I think what you guys doing is, kind of reminiscing, think bringing it back to what it's of used to be like, having small events which really, uh, work and kind of build those relationships.

But Richard, you said. there's a common theme, uh, that I speak to people on this podcast who say the words who are very much a doers, but they always say, I'm a bit risk adverse. Everyone says I'm risk adverse. And I'm like, but you're doing more things than anybody else. Like lots of people just strikes me as an interesting topic because, you know, do quite a few things myself, [00:36:00] but, you know, am my risk adverse?

Maybe. But you know, I think there's this amazing juxtaposition and contradiction, like it's an amazing contradiction. I, when people say, a risk averse, but this is everything I do. And I'm like, what is it really? 

All Flows: Yeah, you're right. And I probably couldn't, but yeah, I definitely feel like, I'm risk averse, but at the same time, yeah. Then, well, both of us have been very much, let's just, i. Do stuff, know, let's kind of go you know, in and outside of what we do,  uh, we always probably ones who just, you know, do things. Um, think it's internally or within kind of the three of us who run the agency. we're constantly, I think, grappling with what are we as a creative agency, yes, we do lots of different things and we work lots of different sectors. Um, and I think sometimes people don't perhaps understand what we are or what we do, you know, we don't necessarily go out and pitch for work or anything like really. You know, we kind of, I. Work in a organic way, but also a lot of the work that we do is self-initiated. [00:37:00] Yeah. And we find ways to make some kind of income from doing the work that we do. You know, and I you that also differentiates us well from other agencies, I guess locally. That we are working in such a way like this. And I think there's probably a bit of, uh, well, hopefully a lot of, um, uh, I guess respects, you know, we've had those kind of conversations with other sort of friends in the sector that, you know, they really love the way that we work and the things that we do and what we're trying to do, um, for the city, you know, and trying to kind of put it on the map with all of these kind of different. You know, disperse kind of projects that we do. Yeah. Does that sense? I think it makes sense. I think it makes sense. Sort of makes 

Radim: How do you, How do you support each other as obviously like work in a partnership. There's three of you in the agency, there's this other people involved. When things get hard, how do you method things?

I mean, when things get hard, like obviously not every day is a sunshine and ice cream. Like how do you support each other? Like um, what you see as a sort of benefit of working with other people? Because actually Richard, you were sort freelancer before, Simon came on board.

I like when you did all of this. So what's it like to [00:38:00] have, I dunno, another shoulders to lean on? 

All Flows: I think it's really good. I mean, I think we've known each other for a long time. 

Yeah. And initially it was the of host client kind of relationship. when, when I began. you know, hosting, um, geek Night at the gallery, but it obviously just became very clear that we had lots of lots of shared interests. Yeah. You know, um, and both equally passionate about the place. Um, and. Yeah, I think, you know, rich is an, you know, incredible hard worker. I'm a little bit more flighty and kind of all the shop. 

So there's a really nice kind of I think, between the two of us. And will is a little bit like the kind of elder statesman, uh, of the business. And, know, he's equally kind of, uh, uh, has these kind of flights of fancy, uh, but also he's done some kind of incredible projects throughout his kind of career and has this incredible knowledge set of kind of contacts.

So I think as a of trio, we've got this kind of really, um, uh, really kind of healthy mix, um, between [00:39:00] and, yeah, things get hard things get frustrating.  um, you know. I think one of the biggest 

we have is because we are not to our, sometimes our a little about detriment, not really fully commercially minded. We not going into this with, you know, we didn't start this as a to, it was almost, a side to start with. You know, the magazine has always been this kind of, and it still is a project. It's part of what we do. You know, it's why it's taken a back backseat because yeah, you need to, well at least try and pay the bills and, you know, go down other 

And I guess if in theory, you know, all flows it's not a business idea, you know, we're just out because let's do it. Why not? You know, yeah. Well, again, too much coffee. Why not? 

Um, but you know, you know, again, some to our detriment, we are not business enough minded, really, you know? And we are not, you know, even though I've worked for myself for a long time, and guess you come from a different background.

Neither of us are particularly, know, that way, inclined. You know, I guess even when I was freelance for a long time, I was never like really business, you know, I never did networking. I never, I was at, great marketing myself. You know, I just to sort of almost stumble away my, way through many years of still doing that career.

And, uh, I think that's sometimes where we struggle, um, and a little bit, But at the same time, in 1, regard is like, it's quite nice. We haven't got somebody saying, you know, you need to this project to pay but we probably should. It'd be good if we had [00:40:00] that, you know, we need to get 

But I think we are very organic and we go after stuff and we are a bit more passion led what we do. And we certainly wouldn't be going and doing things like all flows you know, it's certainly case. I said a a commercial reason. You know, again, we'd love to start making money of it out down the line and we'll get there at some point. But, you know, we're coming it because it'd be really cool to do this in our city, you know, and do an event like this and let's do it. Why not? You know? And let's be ambitious of who we ask and try and get to come and speak at it and, you know, really speaking to, you know, one or two people about 2026, you know, because they can't do this year. But it's like, you know, those conversations are happening so. You know, we're pushing forward and we're already talking about 2027 because that's the city's 60th, uh, birthday and it'll be our fifth year. So, uh, we have a close, I guess, alignment, and we do quite a lot where the city council, um, our event is in the five year cultural and tech strategy for the city. You know, all flows is in there as part of a key thing. So it is nice it's been recognized, but also at the same time it's challenging as well, you know, to of, sort of put it out there. But, uh, we have a good local audience, and then we're not talking big but it's exciting when we do see people from, uh, [00:41:00] germany or the Netherlands or you know, Portugal buying tickets or Copenhagen to to our event, you know, at milton Kings, you know, coming specifically for our event. You know, uh, you know, our first event, you know, we like, you know, pretty much zero social media traction and like new Zealand. And we had people coming over from Michigan, uh, state university in, you know, a a whole cohort. and it was like, I was a bit mad for us, really. You know? I know it doesn't seem much for some the events, but this is our first year they were like, did you come for other, no, no, we literally just came for your event over from Michigan. And that was it. And then they home again and they were great. But, uh, you know, is nice, you know, and that's for us you know, it's enlightening you and it's exciting. And again, these are only, we're not talking, you know, hundreds or thousands of people, but it's still, you know, it means a lot to us, you know, uh, and like you said as well, it's the, you know, going back to that smaller scale events, a kind of, hopefully a really positive memory that they will go away with back to um. You and talk about Milton Keynes and talk about all flows and the kind of things are happening here. So that's our kind of, um, compensation, I guess the months of work that we put into it. And I think also, just thinking about, you know, we really pain [00:42:00] over the lineup of speakers. You know, we only have 12 speakers. Um, and we, do over the course of the of two days and, we started to kind of experiment a little bit with kind of panel discussions and we had a panel discussion year,  um, and we give lots of time between the kind of speakers as well. So those moments where audiences can interact and speakers can with the audience is kind of really really important in terms the of it. Um, but yeah, we kind of do a lot research and we look and we listen to kind of talks and we read things and we, we kind of try to curate you know, these of lineups that we are really excited about and hopefully the are. As well. and I, and I guess sort of, it is that moment between our kind of two respective kind of backgrounds really, you know, my background coming from a more contemporary arts culture kind of and Richard's kind of more design, web design and you know, he's been sort of plugged into that, scene a lot more for long period of time through kind of geek nights. So we've got this kind of interesting, I think, interesting mix of, uh, yeah. how we kind of program. [00:43:00] 

Radim: You've literally read my mind because my next question gonna be all about curation. Like how do you this together and kind of how do you gauge the interest potential? Like, are you, in a way, are you selfish in your sort of curation thinking?

Is, is the people we wanna see, we are gonna put it on and see anyone shows up? Or actually, are you trying to skew it potentially, like this is what people might wanna see. How do you do this? 

All Flows: Uh, we do pour a lot of time into that curation and have. 

Been by quite a lot of people who have attended the last couple of years, been complimented on that. and again, that means lot to us. 'cause you know, people come up, say, like, you know, we have curated not just the lineup, but how it flows over the course of the two days as well.  um, but to come back, I think we, in one way, we are a little bit selfish to a certain extent because we look for people. We're like, who would you wanna see? who would we interesting? 

and sometimes we have to pull back, you know, you know, but we are not always obviously sat to each other. Sometimes it's over Slack or whatever it may be. We're like, oh, these could be good. Or these could be, sometimes like, actually their work's amazing. But do they talk So then you have to go down that rabbit hole? Or like, because, you know, we are not looking at the, I guess there is an element of. 

There's lots of events, don't get me [00:44:00] wrong. you know, but there is obviously, you know, you get a bit of a speaker circuit, right? You know, you do. You have had that, had, you know, through the web industry back in the day there was always like, you know, you'd see the same popping up. 

Don't me wrong. Um, you know, we booked them myself back in the day had that, and it's great 'cause often they'll pull in, people will know them and you you know, maybe gets bums on seats, right. And you know, we do want a little bit of, you know, sometimes you someone who's well known but we don't wanna have them just because they're well known. You know, we still wanna have them because of their great speaker or their content's. Amazing. or usually both. But sometimes there are, I curve balls that we both throw in, or, you know, like, you know, I don't have no idea who this person is, you and we both that. Sometimes you start going, looking 'em up and actually, that could be really interesting. and sometimes, you know, not being favorites, they often come out and be the best talks, right? Because you've not heard them before, but also they're just coming it from a different perspective. Or they may be, you know, um, but you know, it's been really nice. with that. And, been really nice with geek and I over the years as well that kind of like, you you know, there discoveries a little bit, but, um, it's been really good. And I guess, you know, through some of those, you know, for us as well know, friendships are with not just our audience, but some of the speakers in, you know, we have somebody coming back, inner, know, who spoke last year.

He [00:45:00] wants to get involved again this year. No, not as speaking, but like to do something else around music and performance. So, so we're having those and he's like, like, I just want to get involved, you know, and I love, I love the event Hung around. So, so there's kinds of things and we to give space to that. We are like, yeah, let's make happen. 

we'll figure out as part of the program. So that's also, I think quite an exciting way for us is we are not. Completely pinned down of what the has to be. I mean, it's not a drastic thing, but we are moving our start time back a tiny bit from like, know, I think we were like 9, 9 the last couple of years.

And we're like, actually let's start it about past 10. It gives a bit more time. We're run a little later. we had a, I guess a very small closing gathering party. the first two years we're having as an opening party issue on the day of the first event. So, well, let's mix it up.

We think more people likely to be around, people you know, have to disappear on a Friday after work and after work stuff. So, um, we go back to London or get flights or whatever it may be, or go back to Manchester. So, um, so yeah, we're changing pr but we also wanna make space for if people like doing, you know, other creatives we're having another about a, drawing event, which we are gonna go to in London [00:46:00] this week, who someone we're already to and we are talking about bringing that to all flows, you know, so fitting that as part of the program ' cause it. sounds like it's really good fun and would be a fit for us. So, so it's how we add to that as well. yeah, I mean, I think people are kind of curious, like when we kind reach out, um, because they're, oh, they're doing this thing in Milton Keynes. Like, um, and I think people are kind of about that.

And, you know, I think the first year, you know, we, yeah, like Richard said, had no kind of no traction, no sort of social media whatsoever. But, you know, pulled pulled together a pretty incredible kind of lineup of speakers and that kind of from, yeah, just real cold calling, Hey, Ian designers Republic, do you want to come and talk? Like, at our first event we what it's gonna be like. And said, yes. You know, and then other people like Ava Cramers and, um. um. Steph, like, I mean, you know, David Sheldon Hicks, who's now, um, from Territory Studios, he's a real champion and friend and lives weirdly, lives locally, uh, even though he is running this kind of international, um, agency.

Um, but you know, he's kind of introduced us to [00:47:00] people kind of suggested people. So it's all been sort of organic and developing a kind of time. Um, and, you know, 

I think we also, as Richard said, we are having these kind of conversations for, sort of next year, and we do want to bring in like big hitters. You know, I think Ian was a pretty big hitter in terms of the kind of UK. 

graphic design kind of theme. Um, but, you know, we want to kind of amplify the kind of speakers that we have, you know, um, as well as to give kind of opportunities for perhaps sort of of more younger emerging creatives kind of through as well.

and just in terms of like discipline, it's so broad. You know, Richard's incredibly passionate about photography, so we're always thinking about, oh, we'd really like to invite an amazing kind of photographer to kind come and talk. And Laura, um, Pak spoke last year, she was brilliant. Incredible. 

Um, speaker and then you'd have, um, Akil benjamin from Camusi a talk, um, or Brendan, know, talking last year. So it's this kind of real, kind of interesting kind of mix. And perhaps sometimes it does. Become a little bit too esoteric. 

And there has been sort of conversations that [00:48:00] had with audience who perhaps want to get into the, um, I guess the kind of nitty gritty of like the business side of it and how it might be for them. And I think that's incredibly important as well. You know, I think we need to think about how kind of can kind of put these sort of together that are inspirational but also kind of useful for the broader community. Um, you know, creative community. Uh, uh, but I think our, I want the one thing is to really people and I that's what we've. not from what we're doing, but I mean, as from any event is for people to come away feeling energized inspired, you know? And we certainly heard, I mean, we heard it both years, but certainly the first year it felt like quite a a few people we knew personally had attended and like, I've not been through anything like this for and I needed it. I actually, I needed it. you know, and having conversations after where they're just going at you because they're so buzzing, you know? and even last year we had some like local, um, students who part of like scholarship bursary who, uh, like, a local graphic, you know, studying graphic design. and they and some were volunteering, some were on like a scholarship bursary ticket. And they were just [00:49:00] like the after party chatting to them. And they were just like, so energetic and just like, oh, this is amazing. And asking questions, you know, and really curious about how we do and I think that's  um, yeah, I think that's definitely really key. 

how. Yeah, they weren't aware of Geek night. They weren't aware of, kind of all flows. So it's like we're providing those kind of opportunities for kind of students that's, you know, young people that here to come and experience the festival, to kind of, you know, meet other kind of people in the industry locally, but also having that kind of incredible of, you know, inspiring creatives to, kind of listen to the course of the kind of couple days hopefully then will birth other happening in the city. You know, we want these younger generations kind of through, doing things in Milton Kings, you know,  think that's also really part of what we do. And I think that's why, you know, the council have been, um, a of ours right from the beginning, you know, that we're able to of. Touch lots of different areas with um, you know, the type of approach that we're taking to all [00:50:00] flows. 

Radim: I mean, you've taken out so many questions outta my mouth because I was gonna ask you about curation. literally, you've answered everything I was thinking about.

I've ask you um, yeah, I think what you just now said, like You looped it back, to community. Like you get students coming up on bursaries and their scholarships and being excited and just literally, that's giving back to community in the best possible way.

Um, before I let you go, what is your dream guest? sort of, what is your dream guest and what is the type of a talk you would like to achieve? Uh, at all flows. I. 

All Flows: we don't wanna say names we have booked somebody who's, on the list, you know, and confirmed for 2026. So, uh, that's our first actual confirmed for next year. Um, but we've had some conversations with people who are already know we're reaching out these people and again, I don't wanna say their names specifically because they might not happen, but they happen and you know, we'll, work hard that and, uh, but for me, I dunno, it was never like one person who would be my dream, you know, speaker, I mean, I guess there's always, that and, you know, always be of it. like, is there someone who's amazingly creative? And, you know, you really look up to, in that kind of, I guess, creative industries, whatever they do, [00:51:00] but maybe he also cuts across the, kind of genre, you know, because a lot of these people, like, unless you are in a creative, you know, there's a lot of people still don't, you know, you know, you can say, okay, they are a, amazing, high profile, legendary designer or photographer or whatever they do, or you know, filmmaker, but they're not. not household names there. I don't know. And I'm not something we've talked about, but you know, like, you know, you know, I'm not we've spoken know this Stefan sme. Okay. 

I'm not saying we're not something we're going, I haven't spoken to going up, but like, as an example, you know, extremely well known across, know, his creative industry spoken all over a bit a legend like, but you'd still like ask most people and they would never have heard of them.

You know, you know, unless you're in a creative industry. So I guess maybe there is, I'm not saying that's something we go after 'cause I'd always be a bit hesitant about that. Maybe is that somebody who you'd be interesting to find or who that but is people kind of, like, I guess it would be a great press thing. You're gonna draw people in if you got, somebody, oh my God, they've got that you know, and you know that's really cool. But you know, that would be interesting in one regard. I mean, a little bit, bit hesitant in another regard. And yeah, I think that's a really tough question um. . Yeah, I think we, kind of want to surprise ourselves as well, you know? Um, yeah. I can't really think [00:52:00] anyone sort of off the top of of my head. No, no. There's not one person. Yeah. 

Radim: I mean, uh, I've only through a curve ball just you know, to see what you guys thinking because in a way, I mean, as you describe it, like you're thinking it from a, a selfish way.

'cause you obviously people that you would want to see, speak at your event, obviously, that you would go and see So that's why you bring them to yours. But, um, I enjoyed learning about how you guys put this together and how you do this and actually that true dedication to the city and what you're doing for the city, because as you Simon said, you know, at one stage of your life you wanted to run away and only when you came back you realize the impact of the city that it had on you.

And that's invaluable. you can't put into, you know, any sort of metric because it does, how it makes you feel, um, is what matters the most. So yeah, I think what you guys do, and especially  well, with everything that you do, I think is remarkable. Um, because made me feels like, you know, the city ville ville is one of its kind in a way.

And yeah, what you guys are doing is one of its kind again. So yeah, it's been great to learn more about you, to hear about your passion, your selfishness, good selfishness, and um, yeah, I can't wait to see what you guys are with to your event in the future. you. 

All Flows: Cool. Really great to chat to you today.

Thank you. [00:53:00] 

Hey. Thank you for listening to this episode of Mindful Creative Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, or even suggestions, so please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, rather man. Editing and audio production was massively done by Neil McKay from 7 million Bikes Podcast, and the theme music was written and produced by Jack James.

Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode.